[MacTUG] Fwd: Update on wifi [802.11r on macos?]

Fri Nov 18 10:58:36 EST 2022

Can anyone provide feedback on this?

-------- Forwarded Message --------
Subject: Re: [esag] Update on wifi
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2022 15:53:34 +0000
From: Dennis Herman <dherman at uwaterloo.ca>
To: Erick Engelke <erick at uwaterloo.ca>

Hi Erick,

Apple’s statements about macOS support for 802.11r are confusing. From 
the statements below it seems that MacOS 12 (Monterey) “supports” 
802.11r on Apple Silicon, introduced in  late 2020, only ie  implying 
802.11r is not supported on non Apple silicon. Then they state that 
macOS ( in general ?) doesn’t “support” 802.11r but “interoperates” with 
802.11r and ditto for “earlier” versions of macOS which presumably 
supports non Apple ie Intel silicon.

So my take on this is that all post 2020 PCs ie Apple Silicon support 
802.11r as long as they are running macOS 12 and all Apple silicon and 
older  Intel silicon PCs “interoperate” with 802.11r on all earlier 
versions of macOS.

Does “interoperate” mean will connect to an 802.11r AP or does it mean 
it works sometimes  ?

Any Apple experts out there have some experience and/or insight into this ?

Dennis

In https://support.apple.com/en-ca/HT202628 they state

“To use 802.11k and 802.11r, you need iOS 6 or later or macOS 12 or later. “
“macOS support is limited to only Mac computers with Apple silicon.”

In macOS wireless roaming for enterprise customers - Apple 
Support<https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT206207> they state

“macOS Monterey supports 802.11r and 802.11v on Mac computers with Apple 
silicon.”
“macOS doesn't support Fast BSS Transition, also known as 802.11r. You 
don't have to deploy additional SSIDs to support macOS because macOS 
interoperates with 802.11r.”
“Earlier versions of macOS don't support Fast BSS Transition, also known 
as 802.11r. Earlier versions of macOS interoperate with 802.11r so that 
additional SSIDs don't need to be deployed.”

From: Erick Engelke <erick at uwaterloo.ca>
Sent: November 16, 2022 11:07 AM
To: Dennis Herman <dherman at uwaterloo.ca>
Cc: esag at engmail.uwaterloo.ca
Subject: Re: [esag] Update on wifi

I've got an update on 802.11r

https://support.apple.com/en-ca/HT202628 mentions that macOS 12 
(Monterey) or later (Ventura) supports 802.11r.

https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/drivers/network/fast-roaming-with-802-11k--802-11v--and-802-11r 
says that Win10 (I'll assume 11 as well) supports it, but with the 
caveat that the WLAN Radio driver must support the feature as well. 
Thus it is a manufacturer option!

As for Apple support of .11r : https://support.apple.com/en-ca/HT202628

802.11k and r
     • iPhone 4s and later
     • iPad Pro and later
     • iPad Air and later
     • iPad mini and later
     • iPad (3rd generation) and later
     • iPod touch (5th generation) and later
     • Mac computers with Apple silicon

Android: The 802.11r compatibility was broken in earlier versions of 
Android.  And it is also hardware dependant, so drivers for different 
Wifi devices from different vendors will determine compatibility on more 
recent versions.

Samsung: All Samsung Android devices from Android P and onwards support 
802.11r. Enhanced Roaming Algorithm 
(samsungknox.com<http://samsungknox.com>) – note P is Pie or Android 9
Google pixel.  I found a reference that Pixel 3 running Android 12 
supports FT. 
https://www.arubanetworks.com/assets/support/Interoperability-Test-Results-GooglePixel3.pdf

Erick

On Tue, Nov 15, 2022 at 5:52 PM Erick Engelke 
<erick at uwaterloo.ca<mailto:erick at uwaterloo.ca>> wrote:
Good question.  I've asked.  I did a casual web search and found a Cisco 
site which suggested Android 8.3 *MIGHT* be the minimum supported, but 
it wasn't certain.

Probably I'll hear back from IST tomorrow morning with the answer 
they've been given.

As far as I know, Apple products and Windows are not expected to be an 
issue for compatibility.

Erick

Erick

On Tue, Nov 15, 2022 at 5:02 PM Dennis Herman 
<dherman at uwaterloo.ca<mailto:dherman at uwaterloo.ca>> wrote:
Hi Erick,

Can we get an estimate of the versions of Android and Apple device and 
OS below which  will not work with this  Winter 802.11r implementation 
so we can give our users a heads up to encourage the direction of their 
Xmas shopping and hopefully minimize the service disruption and 
dissatisfaction when this is implemented ?

Dennis

From: ESAG 
<esag-bounces at engmail.uwaterloo.ca<mailto:esag-bounces at engmail.uwaterloo.ca>> 
On Behalf Of Erick Engelke
Sent: November 15, 2022 2:11 PM
To: esag at engmail.uwaterloo.ca<mailto:esag at engmail.uwaterloo.ca>
Subject: [esag] Update on wifi

The stability of Wifi on campus has been a great concern to many people. 
  In this Email I try to explain some of the issues and the proposed 
solution for the coming months.

Recent problems in wifi have been largely traced to authentication 
problems and handoffs..

When things last worked well, we had approximately 30,000 
phones/laptops, but now we regularly reach 48K concurrent devices. 
It's not just when you connect once per day, but you nearly constantly 
reconnect to new APs as you walk around campus throughout the day that 
add to the authentication load.

We can attempt to reduce the impact on the system by enabling Fast BSS 
Transition (called FT or 802.11r).

FT greatly reduces the time required to re-authenticate when roaming to 
a new AP, and also reduces packet loss as a result of roaming. FT can 
minimize (but not eliminate) the need for full reauthentication, which 
will reduce the peak load on the auth servers. The use of the FT feature 
is the recommended Wi-fi industry practice, and is recommended by Apple 
and many other mobile device vendors.

Most modern Android phones support FT, but some older devices may not. 
In those cases, clients may be required to wait for a software update by 
their mobile device manufacturer, which will often not be possible, or 
alternatively, clients that do not support FT can be added to the 
UniversityOfWaterloo bypass list to obtain network access.

We did not have FT enabled on the Aruba wireless system, but it is 
in-line with their best practice recommendation as well.

When we changed to the new Cisco infrastructure, we had FT enabled in 
Adaptive mode, which lets devices decide if they can support 802.11r or not.

This did not work well due to a defect in the Cisco code which is now 
fixed, as well as a defect in Android code which will not be fixed in 
older legacy versions. The recommendation from the vendor is to use 
"Enabled", instead of "Adaptive", which will not trigger the Android 
defect, but would leave older Android devices stranded.

The legacy compatibility is not really sustainable, moving to FT will 
give better performance and reliability to all the modern devices so 
it's really the only acceptable choice at this point.

IST is planning to enable FT before the Winter session, and make 
arrangements such as a second SSID for legacy devices which do not 
support 802.11r.

I'll update you as the process moves along.

For more reading, the interested can look at:

[1]https://blogs.cisco.com/networking/what-is-802-11r-why-is-this-important
[2]https://bst.cloudapps.cisco.com/bugsearch/bug/CSCvu24770

Erick
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